Cold Reality of touring. Updated!!!
August 7th, 2009 by Hexfix93
UPDATE* I updated the part about haujobb, I remembered it incorrect. I think i remember it correctly now.
How to tour.
If we get in a van, hit the road, and take 7 to 8 people, expenses will be high. A tour van rental is expensive, gas is expensive, motels are expensive, paying everyone is expensive. The problem is this. When you tour, you will be on the road for weeks, feeding everyone adds up, and you will play shows on weekdays. This means if your lucky maybe a couple hundred people will show up. They wont buy enough merch to make it profitable, and the venue may not be able to pay you if the show tanks. On these smaller markets like chicago, detroit, philly, denver, new orleans, new mexico, st lois, etc etc its not worth even stopping by to take a loss. Because at most you will be lucky to get 200 people. This scene is so small now. I fear booking a huge tour and having my heart broken like the last time I toured the usa. When I toured the usa in 2000, on paper, we would draw 500+ per show, and projected profits for me were 20 grand. I get on tour, that is not what happens, we got lucky and got about 2 to 300 people at each show even on week days, this was in 2000. Well, on the big events on the weekends in the bigger cities, we drew a lot more. In la it was about 400, in san fran it was about 600, in ny it was about 2000, in florida it was about 400. Those shows were successes, but denver, chicago, detroit etc etc, we lose money on. So in 2000 i walked home with 800, yes, i made about 3000, but seriously after all the money i spent on the road not going crazy, it was down to 800 when i came home. The 2000 tour broke my heart, it even made me quit vac for a while, after that fiasco i came home and thought touring was a joke, no money can be made.
Let me break it down.
In 2000, We had two bands, and a tour bus. I think the tour bus was like 50 + grand for the bus, gas, and the driver, this was in 2000. I only paid each person in my band about 800 bucks, i paid my sound guy 5000, the merchandise guy took a big cut, The cost of day rooms was expensive, food was expensive. My basic understanding of the 2000 tour was that all in all the shows took in over 200 grand. but the expenses were way up there and the cost of merch had to be recouped, and after that, there was not a lot of money to throw around. I remember haujob’s drummer *EDIT* was pissed because he did not make as much as he was promised, he left, super angry and left the tour early. I think haujobb paid him everything, and the rest of the band got nothing and he still left. I’m not trying to bad mouth haujobb or anyone, just pointing out how fucked things get because of the lack of funds! This is why coupled with breaking up with my fiance at the time, I literally lost it. And lost my faith in the music industry, the scene, and why it takes me forever to put out an lp every year, because i feel so betrayed by the music industry in so many ways. And now with all the piracy it’s even worse. I became so disillusioned with music. I put my whole life on hold, didn’t go to school, and try to get a real job, because I spent all my time rebuilding my studios after every record trying to figure out how to be a better musician thinking i could make money doing vac or doing video game sound, well getting a job in the industries for audio tanked on me, and no one will give me the time of day. So i sacrificed my life for VAC. And so far, it is super depressing. *UPDATE* And yes, I talked to dave the other day about the 2000 tour, DAVE (OWNER OF METROPOLIS RECORDS) told me that he lost a lot of money on the VAC/Haujobb tour. That he paid us out of pocket and the kindness of his heart because the tour did not even break even, despite all the money that was made.. Now, metropolis does not do the tour thing at all, because he always takes a loss. So it is all on my shoulders now, and I am not in a financial position to lose money on a tour.
Back to the touring tho, seriously, the costs for a big tour is really high, and the profits, really low. Today, I am not convinced I can draw better than I did then, because I will go out alone, with no one else as well. I could try and hop on a big tour(bigger opening act) and pay to play and lose money to promote to an audience that may not like me. That is a gamble I don’t want to take. Or I could just do 1 offs on the weekends and hit the big major cities where my records really sell. But then I have to bring my band, + merch person, and sound lights guy. So for example to fly to chicago for a 1 off, I am looking at close to 3000 in air fare. That is just air fare. Most venues will only guarantee about 3000 or less for an act like me. So the door would barely cover travel expenses, now i would have to rent lights, sound stuff, and flying means i cannot take a lot of gear, so i would have to have that gear on the tech rider, amps, guitars, keyboards, and trust the venues to deliver this gear for me. because you cannot bring that shit on a plane these days, not to mention they lose baggage all the time, its a joke.
This is a lot to think about. When I released lust for blood 3 years ago, I went over all this again, sales for that lp were not great, and i was really put off by how daunting this touring stuff is. So I can tour and make no money and have it all on my shoulders, if i print up a lot of merch with my money and it doesn’t sell i could go bankrupt. So it is all on my shoulders, my label wont help, if they do, they take it out of my future royalties and i eat and live off my royalties. so if it goes south, I starve and end up on the streets. No joke. The cost of touring is really high. I’m not convinced that touring in a van would be profitable at all. I’m not convinced 1 offs on weekends and shipping the merch and fly all over is either.
This is a daunting thing to figure out. I am still disillusioned. It’s why I have not toured in 9 years. This industry is a nightmare. If you think there is this golden rainbow waiting for a band who reaches VACs status in the scene, think again. It broke my heart, everything about my life has let me down over these years. I sold my soul for an empty dream. This is at the very core on top of everything else in my life that has made me so dark, low, and depressed over all these years. Shit…..
Bryan
PS: It looks like we will play one offs more or less. Weekends in the big cities. IF it goes well, I will put together a big tour later.
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24 Comments »
August 7th, 2009 at 12:34 am
why do you need all the shit? i think it would be great to perform all the songs of you just playing guitar? alone.
August 7th, 2009 at 2:47 am
putting one’s soul into something one loves is more self rewarding than slaving in the grime of mediocrity.
honestly, i could say wait on the tour and see how album sales go… but waiting is a gamble on its own.
August 7th, 2009 at 3:13 am
sounds like quite a risk to take. i don’t think you should try to do something you know you can’t pull off, not right now at least. it’s better to wait, maybe see how your new LP sales do before you decide for sure on touring, and hit the largest sales markets if you have earned enough cash by that point to tour. it really sounds like you’ve waited 9 years for a reason, and i’d hate to see it all happen again and you end your career or be out on the streets from a failed tour.
can your label not send you out with other acts on the Metropolis bill? do you have to choose when you tour? it just seems like every band gets thrown onto any tour nowadays.
August 7th, 2009 at 3:58 am
Dude, if you tour with another band you have to split the profits. less and less money. its worse with two bands, and because metropolis all pulls from the same pool of listeners, its redundant and never pans out.
August 7th, 2009 at 4:40 am
200 is GOOD.
Combichrist gets like 300 max at most places they play, and that’s like the hottest name right now.
You really shouldn’t care how many people you get (as long as it’s not less than 100, it’ll still be a fun show), but only worry about whether you can make it through economically.
Some times a 150-people show will be able to pay a lot better than a 500-people show, depending on what possibilities they have in different areas.
For example, if the club have their own venue and bar, they have a lot more to spend on bands than a place that doesn’t.
An important part of touring is analyzing every area and figure out how much money you are able to charge, as you might have to lower your fee in some areas.
Of course, you don’t want to be ripped off, but some places will not be able to pay as much as others, yet playing there will still be better than not playing. If only to make a little cash and getting food + a place to sleep for free.
August 7th, 2009 at 11:11 am
sounds heavy.try to remember what you’ve accomplished.if you were to drop dead.your music would survive you and live on.and we’re in the wrong place for this music anyway.maybe touring is more about quality of venue instead of quantity.maybe just hitting up NY LA and Miami would work.I don’t know seems like an impossible riddle. you don’t seem happy with metropolis.I know I’ve asked this b4 but have you ever thought of going to another label?
August 7th, 2009 at 11:58 am
You should pull a Rudy,
fuck touring and make some nice packages for the fans and make some $$ off that
August 8th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
the numbers you are talking about are ridiculous. the amount of draw you are talking about is great. sounds like you need some better guidance and a paradigm shift in your thinking. are you making music to make money? if so quit now. if you are doing it for love and art and for your fans this post shows you need a paradigm shift. in my honest opinion, it seems like you are taking what you have for granted.
August 9th, 2009 at 5:39 am
Um I don’t do music for love. I do music to tell the world what I feel and think. It’s honest, but it costs a lot of money to make it, and if i cannot make money making it, then i will quit. Vac is about hard times, the bad things in the world, and my hate of what most of humanity is. There is no love fest here, no love train, I’m no fucking hippy, and making a VAC record is not FUN, its exhausting and emotional, it makes me think of the bad and feel bad when I make it. It’s honest, not some fucking hobby. I have a side project called toxic coma, i make that for free, and it is fun and i love it. VAC is serious and emotional and not about fun to me. This new lp might be the last. really. If i cannot sell, metropolis will not keep me on. This is the cold hard life of being an artist in the professional level. It’s not about money, but if i don’t make money doing it, will have to get a job, if that is the case, i will go back to school and i wont have any time for that, a job and VAC. so. whatever.
Nothing is free, i spend so much on gear. If it doesn’t sell well, i will BE FORCED TO QUIT. Life does not flourish in this capitalistic world without money.
August 9th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Hi Brian.
Big thanx for composing a great music i like it for years. Have you ever thinked about adding a shop future to your web page, shirts, cds, signed cds, singles, songs alone, new songs previews. I think it may work without metropolis. I’ll buy every upcoming album straight from you.
Once again thanx from Russia.
August 9th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Id jump in a van and play drums for free. I just enjoy playing in front of people. Never realy made more than 20 bucks for a small show that maybe 30 people were attending. But it was worth it.
August 9th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
have you thought about setting up a donation fund to aid your expenses?
August 9th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
hello brian,
i am a big fan of your work, since the time the “church of acid” was released in germany…
when i heard you will go on tour again, i was hoping to see you perform live on a concert in germany, but what i have to read here makes my expectations fade away.
so, please do me a favour: be a good and successful capitalist, earn the fucking money and play a show in my neighbourhood.
maybe it´s even easier to get an adequate payment here, because the scene here has grown very big, and in germany take sold out festivals place – with 12000 to 25000 vistors per day. think about it…
thx for your art!
greetz henner
August 10th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Play on the safe side Bryan, no matter what. You’re right, it’s hard to make money off good music, there aren’t enough intelligent music fans around… at least not at the moment. Refusing to put your neck on the line does not make you a sellout.
August 10th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Bryan or Hexfix or whatever, listen to me man:
I have been listening to your music since I was in Middle School. I just graduated from college. I’ve been listening to your stuff and loving every minute of it for the past 12 years dude.
I know I’m not the only who has been keeping up with you for this long. I totally feel your pain of putting your everything into a project and it falling flat; you might see yourself as a big success, but you have fans like me who devour everything you put out. We’ll be loyal fans forever.
As much as I’d love to see you tour, I totally feel you on the expenses. If you do periodic shows on weekends, I would highly recommend the Rock & Roll Hotel in Washington D.C.–it’s where ohGr played on the recent tour. It seems to specialize for small audiences and the acoustics are great. There’s a pretty good industrial following in this area also.
Whatever you do, don’t stop making your music. You’ve gotten so much better over the years and I’m excited about all of your releases. I could go on and praise you forever, but VAC means a lot to me. Best of luck to you in everything you do.
-DDTea
August 10th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
The dedication it takes to pursue your own dream with just about no help from others is an utter fucking nightmare most people will never know. It’s a sacrifice people either misunderstand or ridicule, and the pain is all yours. Every last bit of it is not only frusterating, but mercilessly introspective.
Well anyway, that’s how I view the great struggle. If the story behind VAC is anything like I imagine it, then I can relate, and what you’ve done is absolutely inspiring.
The new song sounds great,
I hope things look up.
August 11th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
bryan dont forget that your fans want to see you perform! im not lucky enough to be in the states but i know how much it would mean to me to see you live even if its not really worth your time and money, its more than that, its about the music and performing etc
August 11th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
I just want to say I saw you here in Denver and it is a definite highlight in the industrial shows I’ve seen. It is a tough situation you’re in, and I don’t have any advice. Just if you do end up playing some shows, your home town will show you some love, trust me. And there’s no travel expense! Bonus!
August 21st, 2009 at 2:09 pm
if you ever consider chicago again how about “the abbey pub” recently seabound was there also miss kitten and the hacker also HOCICO will be playing there in october. please reconsider chicago. they abbey pubs website says to send “electronic press kit to-booking@abbeypub.com thank you
August 21st, 2009 at 2:31 pm
hell i just looked again @ the abbey pub in chicago. PROJECT PITCHFORK will be there aug. 29 and imperative reaction along with psyclon nine will be there sept 4. so come on over to CHI-TOWN.
August 29th, 2009 at 1:47 am
hi,
you´re anything but a failure!! anyone can say this, u inspire us, we devour anything that u create, i find peace and pleasure at every single second i hear any song of you, so don´t give up…Fuck the money, eventhough we know that u cant live with our apreciation, keep in mind that u feed us, we need vac to fuck this reality…
greetings from Bolivia.
September 14th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Hi folks
We try since months to contact anybody of the band Velvet Acid Christ. Hope, this mail
reaches the right person now?
Like every year we arrange the „Wave Gotik Treffen 2010” in Leipzig/Germany.
More than 25.000 people join this festival each year, it`s the biggest wave & goth meeting worldwide.
we would invite you for a gig at our festival 2010.
Please send us an e-mail with your (serious) conditions, if you are interested
In playing at our festival. Think about it.
It`s the best possibility for you to play for an international audience.
But please note the area restriction: no other club or festival shows within a circumference
Of 250 km 4 weeks prior and after the WAVE GOTIK TREFFEN!!
We hope to here from you soon.
Thanx in common. Best regards.
Kalle
In Move
Konzert- und Kulturproduktionen GmbH
Schulstraße 63 | 09125 Chemnitz
Telefon: +49 (0) 371 56046-0 | Telefax: +49 (0) 371 56046-10
Internet: http://www.inmove.de | E-Mail: t.kahl@inmove.de
Geschäftsführer: Sven Borges, Mike Schorler
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Chemnitz
Eingetragen im Handelsregister Chemnitz HRB 14139 | Handelsregister-Nr.: HRB 14139
September 14th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
I hope it goes well, Id really love to see you in Kansas City. But not if you would be losing more than winning! I wouldn’t want that for you. I do not like gambling with anything, I hate all of the negative sides of ur job man. It really sucks. But you make such good music for so many people. I know for your your music has helped me before in certain times. As well as a few friends. Good luck man
October 9th, 2009 at 10:58 am
We would love to bring you to Tulsa, Oklahoma since you have never played here and we aren’t far from home ;) We have brought such bands as Aesthetic Perfection, Armaggedon Dildos, Assemblage 23, Attrition, Ayria,Combichrist, Dismantled, God Module, Imperative Reaction, Mentallo & The Fixer, Thrill Kill Kult, SITD, Stromkern, Terrorfakt, The Birthday Massacre, The Cruxshadows, VNV Nation and much more.